I'm so excited to introduce you to Julie Bouche! Julie has completely transformed her life using her deep understanding and embodiment of the hero's journey and now she helps others do the same.
Listen to this episode to learn how to stay on the path when it's hard, be okay when it's uncomfortable, let go of what's no longer serving you, so you can find more calm and peace.
✧ How the universe invites us to transform and allow more good into our life
✧ What the hero's journey is and how to apply it to your life to go deeper into the truth of who you are
✧ Why the journey never asks us to give up something we need
✧ Why hitting rock bottom is actually a powerful place to be
✧ How every part of life's journey is drawing us to our highest potential
✧ How to develop the emotional resilience to make it through the hard parts of life so you can receive the gifts on the other side
✧ Why resistance is our ally and how it's guiding us where to go next
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I am sooo grateful for you listening today. If this resonated with you, it would mean the world to me if you’d leave a review on itunes. Everyone’s invited to the afterparty which takes place every day on instagram @magneticallyyou so come hang out with us there.
If you’re really fired up about mindset, spiritual and personal development, click here to check out my coaching programs and courses.
Hello, and welcome to the magnetical you podcast. I'm your host Madison, sir dike. I'm a mindset energy coach, here to help you feel your freaking best and manifest a life full of magic miracles and abundance. I know that whatever led you here, it did not happen by coincidence. So I am so excited and grateful to have you here. So let's let the magic begin. Hi, and welcome to the magnetically you podcast. I am so honored to have my client Julie here today, she is absolutely incredible. We've worked together a few different times at different parts of our journeys, we'll say and that'll make more sense as we go in the episode because Julie's an expert on the hero's journey. I read her book on it a couple years ago, and it's absolutely incredible, highly recommend going to get the book, but we're gonna get into all of it today. But so yeah, Julie and I work together when I did Intuitive Eating coaching. And she was actually my first client, Julie, I don't know,
even knew I did not know that. That yes,
yeah, you were my first client ever, like three years ago, which is absolutely wild. And here we are, again, in new phases of both of our journeys. So I'm really happy to have you here. And so excited for you to share your wisdom with everyone because you just have such an incredible way of viewing life and the things we go through and moving towards our greater purpose. And I'm just so excited for you to share it, share it all with everybody. Well, thank you, I
really appreciate that. And I actually am going to take a moment to just express my gratitude for you, Madison and the part that you have played, as you mentioned, in the on a couple of different occasions, occasions and different parts of my journey, how fundamental Your support has been, and allowing me to believe in this and to believe in myself, and the message in the journey that I want to share and believing in that message as well. That it was powerful enough and that it was important enough to share. And so thank you for that piece of it. And helping me get to this spot where I am and where things were, life is good. Even amidst emotional breakdowns and stress and getting kids out the door and all of the things. Life is good. And I don't know that I've ever had a time in my life where I felt like I could say that as genuinely, as I can now and you've been a huge part of that. So thank you.
Oh my god, I'm also like, cry. Thank you so much. Well, that's I'm really glad that you said that life is good. Because I know that's something you've said to me so many times, and you really mean it like life is good and whole, like nothing's missing. I'm happy with who I am like, well, we'll come back. Usually I start with people's story. But I'm like, I just want to go right into this one. So look up, look back and hear more about your story and what got you into all of this, but like what has allowed you to become that person who really just feels like okay, like life is good. Like I can allow myself to believe it's good.
A few things, I think and one of them has been in working with you that invitation to and I actually put this on my phone, it's the screensaver on my phone. And it says wouldn't it be fun if and being able to step into this space of possibility that if anything is possible, that that means that things can also be good. It's not just all the possible things that could go wrong. It's all the possible things that could go right. And ultimately, it has been my understanding of the journey process that has shown me how everything can be good, how life can be good, even when things are hard. And it's coming to trust the journey process that's allowed me to, like you said like to say it and mean it. I don't when people ask me how I'm doing and I say life is good, it's not emotional bypass, it really is true. And and I can live in the container of everything is good. And right now, this is a little hard or everything is good. And right now, if I missed this person, or you know, whatever it is that the container is always there. Because of that relationship I have with that sort of bigger picture, Journey process. And the containers big enough to hold both It doesn't it doesn't need to be one or the other. It's life is good or things are hard. It really has shown me the power of both. It's this and this And the beauty and the depth that comes when you can hold both of those things at the same time, that life can be good and things can be hard. And they're not mutually exclusive.
Oh my god, I'm like, Chuck, I'm like, Alright, I think we're complete like that is just like, oh my gosh, so, so good. And it's like, I think we forget when we're in those hard times that we have the capacity to allow and God like you call it a container. And that's what it feels like to me too. It's like a, it's a capacity. It's like, Am I willing to even when shits hard allow in some of the good that is there. Because it's always there. It's always within, like you said the container.
Yeah. And that's been really powerful for me, where I think growing up, I had a lot of black and white thinking and was really quite skilled at worrying. And catastrophizing, I spent a lot of time developing that ability, but to the exclusion of the good to the exclusion of the things in my life that weren't good. And being able to as I, as I grew up, and as I learned more about this process, just being able to recognize that it was there, whether I was seeing it or not, the good was still there. people cared about me, there was a beautiful sunrise, I could eat my favorite food, like whatever it was it that good never went away. And so learning the process of expanding into that space of allowing the good to still be there, even when things were hard, I think was probably one of the really big, transformational moments for me, and, you know, in in Journey terms. And that was a really big journey for me, and wouldn't trade it for the world. Looking back on how as much as I thought I was right, or I thought I saw things clearly or whatever it was, I wouldn't trade it for, for anything at this point because of the peace. It's allowed me.
Oh my gosh, so good. Okay, so let's, let's rewind, so we can get into more more of the journey stuff that I love hearing you talk about, and I'm so excited for everyone to hear about. who's listening. But what Yeah, tell us tell us about your life, your story, like what led you on? What led you to being a coach and an expert in the hero's journey and really, like, in so many ways, like devoting a lot of your your purpose and energy to studying this and mastering this and, and in a way that you like, now get to like, deeply help other people find that peace in their own life. And that true sense of life is good in their own life.
Yeah, I for this, this particular journey started when I was working at a residential treatment facility, I worked for a company that was local here that helps women with eating disorders, and was really just kind of a peripheral worker, as they had a high school for the adolescents who came to get treatment. And I was an English teacher in that high school. And I had kind of been, I'd heard of the hero's journey, and Joseph Campbell and those sorts of things, but hadn't had never really studied it. Until I was looking for some way to make Frankenstein. More interesting to my students. And I actually really love that book. There's so much about it, that just makes me smile. But I was trying to find a way to help my students interact with it. And so I thought, well, I've seen some things about hero's journey, I think I can take it and I think I can use it with Frankenstein. And maybe they'll just get a different sense of how to interact with this book. And these characters who are hurt, maybe sometimes a little difficult to relate to. So I was really just teaching the, the Joseph Campbell Hero's Journey model, and we were talking about the different pieces of it. And we and these are adolescents who are in residential treatment, which you can imagine, you know, they're they're not at home, they're away from their friends and their family. They're away from their schools. It's a somewhat difficult situation. And they are in treatment on top of it, right? So it's not just that they're away from home, but they're also in treatment. So they're being asked to do a lot of inner work, which can be very difficult. And so school was kind of an interesting spot in their therapeutic program. And as I was talking about the cycle, we just did it in one class period. I didn't really spend a whole lot of time with it. We're getting to the end of talking about the cycle and there was a student who was there who had been at the treatment center previously, had gone home and had ended up back in her eating disorder behavior. So she returned back to residential treatment and that was a really difficult thing for her she felt very much like she had failed
was was doing her best, she was really trying hard and just was trying to make sense of everything that happened. And as we were talking about the cycle, we got to the point at the end where the hero returns home. And we talked about how there are basically three ways that this return can happen either they come home, and everything's perfect. It's like ticker tape parade, or they come home, and they just don't fit anymore. And they have to leave or they come home. And they have to find a way to stay the person that they become on the journey, and still interact with home still interact with the people that they cared about, or the life that they had, or whatever the case may be. And so as I was just talking about that, we're talking about examples. And she was writing these notes furiously, and I wasn't sure what was happening, I honestly thought she was doing a therapy assignment instead of focusing on school because she was writing so intently. And then at some point, she just pushed back from the desk, and she threw her pencil down, and she's like, I get it. And I kind of took a second because I wasn't sure what she was talking about. But as we were able to open up that space for her to talk about it, she recognized in herself. What had happened when she went home. And it was talking about the journey and talking about these different possibilities of ways that things can turn out that she realized that she hadn't failed. That wasn't what happened. Instead, it was these other factors that we talked about with the jury process. And she's like, this is better than therapy, which I don't know, that therapist would have agreed with, but but it was a relief for her anyway. And she was able to look at her experience in a totally different way. And it was at that point that I started thinking about the power of what I was holding in my hands like I hadn't realized, when people talk about the hero's journey, usually it's just literature, it's these myths and stories from different cultures. But really the power of the journey and and even Joseph Campbell, when he talks about it, he's like, I didn't create this, I just gave it a name. And I think that's because ultimately, what he's talking about is this lived experience of being human. And when we understand the parts of this lived experience that are common, we all do it. We all go through this journey process. And we go through it multiple times. Sometimes we're in multiple journeys at any given time. But really, he's just talking about the experience of being human. And I recognized as I started working with the the adolescents first and then was able to expand the teaching of the journey to the adults that were in residential treatment. But I recognize that not only were they able to relate with these experiences, because they had lived them, they were living it at the time. But it gave them a way to understand those experiences that was empowering, and hopeful. And for some reason, it really resonated. And so that was kind of where I was like, Alright, there's something here I need to be really tuning into this and thinking about how I can share this message of, you're going to go through this experience. But guess what, it's kind of predictable. There's some things that are going to happen. If this is truly a journey that you're experiencing, there are things that are going to happen. And if you know that those things are going to happen, it's so much easier to stay the course and to not give up and to not feel like it's not worthwhile or to feel like you can't do it. Because it's just what's what's happening in the process. And I think when it was really cemented for me was actually one day when I was talking to you about it, Madison where I said, you asked me like, What was the point? Right, like, what does this do? And in that moment, I realized that not maybe not enough? Well, it was okay. It was the point of passionate about it. Right. And yeah, because you
yeah, we're just giving me that space to articulate so yes, they're not in the bill. Why are you doing this? Very much in the giving me that space to articulate it. And what came in that moment was that this process is the way when we talk about the universe, having our back right when we talk about the universe, conspiring for our good that this is the way that it does it. This is the mechanism that the universe uses to bring forth that good in our lives. And it becomes the way that we transform that we change that we become better versions of ourselves. Which when I when I would teach this in residential treatment, we talked about how it's, it's one again, one of those things where it can hold both ideas, but it's like it's a spiral process where every time you Go through your little higher, a little higher, a little higher, improving, becoming better all of those things. And at the same time, it's like a spiral that's digging down deeper into just who we really are. And so as we become a better version of ourselves, we're really just becoming more ourselves. And it's through this process that that happens. And so since we have to live it anyway, this is this is our experience as human beings, it's that much more powerful if we can understand the process and recognize, okay, if I'm feeling a certain way, or if noticing this particular pattern, then that means I'm kind of here in the process. Or maybe you know, I'm here ish. So if I'm in this part of the process, what do I need to do? What do I need to be aware of? What support do I need and and it just allows us to stay the course. Because the journey ultimately has something for us it has a becoming that is waiting for us if we can just stick to it and not quit early. And we get all the way through into the end. It ultimately is so much better than we ever could have thought. And maybe all of us can think of examples of that where we thought no, that this is the worst thing that could have possibly happened to me, I didn't get the house I wanted or I didn't get into the school I wanted or whatever it was. And we can look back and say actually, that turned out so much better than I could have anticipated. And that's the journey experience when we really allow it to do what it is intended to do. All things get ordered for our good. And that's actually a favorite scripture of mine, where just talks about how all things are ordered for our good as fast as we're able to receive them. And that relationship with a journey is I think what opened up the ability to look at a situation and say, Okay, well if if this is happening in the context of a journey, that it really is ultimately going to be for my good. And not that everything that happens in our lives is amazing and transformative. Because it's not necessarily sometimes we're just human, right? Like, we're gonna stub our toe, or we're going to forget to put gas in the car, right? Like those things just happen. But the journey provides a space for us to learn how to use those experiences. To hone those skills to it doesn't it doesn't cause those things to happen. But it can take those experiences. And again, organize them for our good. So that it's a it's a way to build a skill or it's a way to get some insight or it's a way to connect more deeply with who we are. And that all happens within the context of a journey. So that's kind of the long story of how I got to this point.
Wow, I love when you said like it. I don't know if you use the word Ignite. But that's the word I remembered like it ignites transformation, it ignites you to dive deeper into who we are. And like you said, it's like, I think you use the word spiral. And what I kind of like envision, it's like, you go on this journey, and which is like this portal. And like through this portal through this journey, you're like, navigating through all these perfectly designed obstacles, or you could call them if you want to that literally like almost I don't know, forces, what I'm looking for, like, basically forces to shed the false layers of who we are, and go deeper into our truth and who we are and our inner peace. Like is that, is that what it is? Am I understanding correctly?
I think that a lot of ways. Yeah. I mean, it's it's an interesting balance between this idea of whether or not every single thing that happens is intentional and planned, or of everything that happens, can be used. And I think with a journey, it really is kind of more of the second like those things can all be used for our good because ultimately, as human beings, we get to make choices. And people make choices that hurt other people sometimes. And it's never felt right for me to say, Oh, well, that person clearly needed that awful thing like that person to have done that awful thing to them, right? Like, that doesn't make sense to me. Yeah, it does make sense as the journey can take that. And it can say, okay, there's this thing that happened, and it wasn't your fault. And it wasn't because of who you are. And it's not a failing of your soul. But let's take it and work together to turn this into something that's beautiful. And that's what the journey can do is it can take those experiences and just like you said, it can it can bring us deeper it can allow us to have more clarity and more understanding through those experiences to get to the truth of who we are these magnetic And whole, beautiful beings who are having this experience of being human, and whether whether the journey and I do think the journey sometimes does have things prepared for us, I do think there are some things that are intentional when we when we're invited into these journeys, but at the same time, the journey is big enough and powerful enough to also turn the things that maybe, you know, just happened because of being human or because of agency and choice, or whatever it is, all of it can be turned for our good.
Well, I love that. So for people listening, who aren't super familiar with the hero's journey, are you able to, like walk us through like, the general like, just of the different like phases? Or like, what what that looks like?
Yeah, absolutely. And just a little caveat here, like in teaching it, to the women in residential treatment are just so beautiful and so honest, and so willing to kind of give me the feedback that allowed me to talk about it in a way that that worked for them. I do talk about it a little bit differently than Joseph Campbell, talks about it in his in his stuff. And I think it's just, it's really just vocabulary about this human lived experience, right? Like, yeah, and his vocabulary, and I've got my vocabulary, and other people have their vocabulary. And so if it sounds a little bit different to anybody who has studied hero's journey through Joseph Campbell, that's why this is this kind of became the the practical lived vocabulary for these amazing women who were just struggling to remember how amazing they were right. And so the basic gist of the hero's journey is that the hero and we talk about the hero in literature all the time, because these are the stories that we write, these are the stories that we love, every movie, every television show, every epic poem, even some songs, they all follow this pattern of, of the hero leaving home. And then they go through something difficult. That prepares them to accomplish some task, there's something that the hero has to do. And once they've accomplished that task, then they return home. So it's most basic, that's what it is they leave home, they do something difficult, and they come home a different person than when they left. And so when we talk about the basic journey, you kind of have the first phase, which is when they're at home, they're usually a little bit miserable. Something happens to call them on their journey, that's kind of the first part. And then as soon as they start their journey, they, the hero is going to cross what we call a threshold, which is basically just stepping from what they know to what they don't know. So you see this all the time in literature. And in movies where you know, a hero is leaving home for the first time or they're starting a new job, or they're going to a new school or whatever it is right, it's going into something new. And once they've stepped across that threshold, whether it's literal or figurative, they have literally moved into an unknown world. So they're going to come up against all of these difficulties. Because they just they literally don't know, like, I don't I don't know how to handle things when I can't run to my older brother. And he'll make things better. I don't know where to find my first class. I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. And that can be really difficult. And when we step across, into that first part of the journey, where we're being faced with all the things that we don't know, that can be a really frustrating time and in for a lived experience. It can feel like we're trying and failing and trying and failing and trying and failing. And failure is a very uncomfortable thing for us. And so we sometimes that might be where we decide it's not worth it. And we give up the journey, we kind of go back to the beginning. And what I learned about journeys is, we can absolutely do that, we get to have that choice of going back to the beginning back to kind of the old us the situations we were in before, but ultimately, the journey is going to invite us to come again. And again and again. And again. So no matter how many times we quit the journey, it's going to come back that invitation to make that choice or to make that change is going to continue. And sometimes we don't want it to sometimes we're unwilling, but the journey is persistent. And it's going to continue to offer us opportunities, sometimes subtly, sometimes very loudly, to come back to the journey. And so if we make it through that, that trial, and how do we it's hard to call it even failure because really, it's just part of the process. And as a teacher, I get this, because when we teach our kids to do stuff, sorry, I call my students, my kids. I know that's kind of weird, but when I was teaching my kids to write like it was all just about, okay, you're going to try it and then I'm going to give you a little bit feedback. We're going to make some adjustments and I'm going to have you try it again. Right. So it's trying and then getting some feedback. and making an adjustment and then trying again and getting feedback and making an adjustment. But what happens is we usually, if we haven't learned how to have the emotional resilience or the perspective to understand that we try, and we get some feedback, and that's where we stop, instead of making an adjustment and trying again. And when we stop, we're not trying anymore, we're not doing these iterations and learning and growing through that, that's when we've gone back to the beginning. So as we work through those things, we're actually getting better and better and better every repetition. Every time we try and we get feedback and we make an adjustment try again, that helps us to build the skill or to gain the knowledge or to do whatever it is that the journey needs us to have or to be able to do in order to complete the cycle. Because again, like I mentioned, at the end of the journey, there's this, this task, there's something that the hero has to do. And a jury is preparing us for that. And so the things that we don't know, the things that we aren't aware of the things we're unable to do, that's what what we're going to have the opportunity to develop and to bring into our lives. And along the way, we're going to have support, support is actually a crucial part of journeys. Every single journey has at least one piece of support. Every journey has a helper. Some journeys also have mentors, who are people who can kind of see the big picture. But the helpers are the people who are there kind of day to day with us. And I remember teaching this one time, and someone was like, Well, yeah, but like Castaway, he's on an island all by himself. And he said, that's true. But he has a helper. And as the, as the students thought about it, they're like, oh, Wilson, like yes, Wilson says helper Riley has support if he's willing to use it. And in his case, he was even though he was completely alone, he had a helper there, which was emotional support, which is day to day, just kind of in the trenches help. And then again, these mentor characters who can see the end, they kind of help us get back on course, when we maybe drift a little bit or want to turn around and go home. That's where the mentors really help us. And I think that has been the joy for me, in teaching this and in coaching with it is being able to help with those, those course corrections, right, like to be able to say, alright, we're, we're a little off the path here, let's come back to to the journey. Let's come back to what, what's available for us in this moment, right here and right now. And so if we use that support, though, we have to understand that we need that support. It's not, it's kind of not optional. Because once we've crossed into that unknown world, there are things we don't know, we need other people to help us. And so we we learned how to use how to reach out for support, how to use that support. Because at some point, we are also the support and other people's journeys. And so as we are able to have healthy relationships, without that support on our journey, we can be a healthy support for other people in theirs as well. And at some point, and this is the part that everybody hates.
We're going to hit rock bottom in this journey. And so much we can say about this, but really what when we talk about that first part where we're trying and adjusting and getting feedback, that's that's adding to us that's adding to our skills and our knowledge. But when we hit the Abyss when we hit kind of that rock bottom point, this is where the journey invites us to let go of the things that aren't serving us anymore. So we're that first part of the process is more additive. This is where we're releasing, this is where we're letting go. And I love how the journey has both of those parts, because they're both necessary. We can't just keep adding at some point, we have to release the things that aren't serving us anymore. And that's when
I love that because I was I felt like a couple months ago like I was really in an abyss and my life just in a funk for like two months and like could not not seem to get myself out of it. And someone said to me, the the releasing is just as powerful part of the process as the like activating and receiving. And that just was like, Ah, I could like exhale and just be like, Oh, like this is part of the journey. Right? This is part of the process like I'm like this releasing is serving me.
Yeah, and and how so often what we feel like we can't live without is the very thing that we're being asked to give up. And I find that fascinating because it's such an essential part of this process. Like you're saying like it's just as important as receiving and it really is. But what I found and again, this is in building the trust with with the journey itself. As the journey never asks us to give up something that we're going to need ever. And so if we're feeling like we're being asked to give up an identity, or a behavior or an anger or a hurt, right, like these things that we become really reliant upon, the journey is going to ask us for that thing. Because ultimately, the journey knows we don't really need it. That's the very thing that's holding us back. And so when we can release that, and trust the journey, if it's asking me for it, it's because I really actually don't need it anymore, then that allows us to move through that of this part of our journey. And we can get very stuck in the abyss like, because it's a very confusing space, it's a it's a somewhat chaotic space, where the other spaces is very kind of structured, like just practice your reps, right? And just just do the things learn this stuff. Yeah, the abyss is much more chaotic and open. In that sense, it can very much feel like an abyss. That's why we call it the abyss, right? Like it can feel like this deep, dark pit. But within that chaotic space, ultimately, what we can have is a revelation. And it sounds like that's what happened for you, Madison, like somebody said something. And it may have even been something that you have heard before, who knows. But in that moment, that was what broke things open for you. And that's also a part of this process, there's going to be a and we say revelation, like, there were stories where angels come down, you know, like that happens. But usually, it's just like this aha moment, where we've, we've kind of had all of our structure ripped away, the things that we've relied on, have been taken from us, and we're just left with us. And when we finally hit rock bottom, what is so powerful about that is that it's solid.
So it's gonna rip away everything that's on top of rock bottom. But once we hit rock bottom, it's solid. And we can build from there. But sometimes it takes a while, like I there are things in my life where I feel like I was in that space for years, right where I just, I just was still having pieces kind of ripped away. And that's painful. And it's hard. And I and I didn't, couldn't see it at the time. But when I finally hit that rock bottom spot, then I was able to like, like you said, just take that breath and be like, I can see it now. I couldn't see it before, I can see it now. And now I know what to do to move forward, I can release this thing, I can let it go. And that's what brings us out of the abyss and ultimately toward that task, that thing that we're supposed to do, which is I call it the unique task, it has other names, but I call it the unique task. Because first of all, it's something that only we can do. It's the hero is uniquely prepared, because of their past because of the journey to accomplish this thing. And it's something that no one else can do. And I've been why I think that matters is because sometimes we want other people to do our task. Because it feels too hard. It feels like we can't do it. But really, we're the only one who can. And particularly when we're talking about coming in ourselves, there's there's nobody else that can do that for us. And so this unique task is unique for us, we are the only ones who can do it. And it's something that has to be done, right, like there's an action associated with it. And that's not to say like this is the climax of the movie is right where their big final battle who's going to win? I don't know. Generally speaking, the good guys, when we kind of have that even though we go into these movies where like, I don't know what's going to happen, we kind of do just because the cycle works in our lives. And we've kind of we've seen it for ourselves. And I think that's actually why we're drawn to these stories. Because we have experienced it, we've lived it. And so it resonates with us. And some journeys resonate with us more than other journeys. They're movies we love and movies we really don't care about. But there are people who love the movies we don't care about and don't connect with the movies we love, right? Like, it just depends on us and our residence. But when we get to that unique task, what I think is so fascinating is that it doesn't actually matter whether or not the hero wins, it doesn't matter if they accomplish the task. What matters is that they are capable of accomplishing the task and I know that sounds like a little bit of a of splitting hairs. But ultimately the journey is about becoming capable. It's about becoming in general becoming this better version of ourselves becoming more ourselves like however you want to picture it. The journey is able to do that. And as the journey does that, whether they win the championship or not It doesn't matter, because they were capable of winning the championship, whether they whether we get into that college or not, doesn't matter, because we're capable of getting into college. So this is actually the example that I would use is, sometimes in education, we have this, this desire to make sure kids graduate and get into college. And so you have people who maybe encourage them to skip the journey part and like, let's just get them into college and everything's gonna be okay. Then we send these kids off to college, and they're not capable of college. And that's not what we want. We want them to be capable of it. So they can do it anywhere. Whether it's this college, or that college, or that trade school or getting a job or doing an internship. We want them to be capable. And that's what the journey does. Yeah. And it's
like, it's, it's, is it not, it's not even like they're not capable. It's just like, that's not their journey right now.
Yeah. And that can happen too, right? Like, we have people that may think they know what our journey should be, or we think we know what other people's journeys should be. And in the end, we don't. And there's actually a really interesting example, like, if you've seen Molana, I have little kids. So Disney movies have been a part of our lives. But if you've seen a wanna you know that she has an interesting relationship with her father, who keeps trying to encourage her like, No, you need to stay on the island, you need to be here, you need to be here. And what's interesting is that that was his journey. Like that was the lesson that he needed to be the leader that he ended up becoming. And he thought that that was her journey as well. But ultimately, it wasn't, she had a totally different journey that she needed to go on. And so we have to be careful as we're trying to guide and support people on their journeys, that we recognize that the journey itself knows where the where the hero needs to be, where we need to end up to become capable. And if we're capable, it doesn't matter where we end up, because we're capable in all of these different places. Whereas if the goal is just to get into that college, or to get that job, or to marry that person, or whatever it is, and that doesn't happen. And we haven't become capable through the learning and the letting go and all of those things, then we don't know what to do. And we don't have a direction. And so then we actually kind of have to go back and take the journey that we skipped in shortcuts, or whatever it is, in not wanting to actually go through the process, we kind of have to go back and do it later. If we didn't do it when it was initially presented, but the journey is patient, it will come back again, it will invite us again, it will bring us in again, over and over and over, no matter how many times we we deny the journey or we end earlier, we just say you know, we're not even going, it's going to keep coming back because it can see our potential, it can see what we can be capable of. And so in that sense, it also has this perspective of maybe this isn't like there isn't just one shot, there isn't just one chance, there isn't just one way that this can turn out that there can be any number of ways. Because the point isn't that specific task, although you know, if the heroes task is to save the world, and then please do right, like, please save the world. But for us in our lived experience, we can look at and say you know what, even if that doesn't happen, I'm still gonna be okay. And I think that goes back to that container of life is good. Because if I trust the journey, the journey is going to get me wherever I need to be. And as I respond, and as I act, and as I do my best, whatever that is on any given day, I'm progressing on that journey. And that ultimately allows me to be successful, even if it's not what I thought it was going to be. And I think that's what's fun about, you know, stories where heroes leave home, and they think they know why they're leaving home. They think they know how it's going to end. And we do that too. You know, I have a sense I should apply for a job. So in my head, that means I'm going to get the job if I apply for it. Maybe maybe not. But what did I learn along the way? How did that process change me, that's what the journey cares about. Because then when they get to that last part of the journey, which is going home, crossing back into the world that they knew before the journey, the the expectation of the journey is that we will then share what we've learned. We will help other people in their journeys so that they can succeed. It's never a journey just for us. It's never turned inward. If that makes any sense. It's okay, you've been given these gifts. And that's actually what we refer to them as in the journey cycle is you when you return with gifts. These gifts are meant to be shared. And they're I feel like people are put into our lives at certain points and Madison, you're one of these people for me to be that support that I needed it really crucial points in my journey, that ultimately now that I've finished any particular cycle or any particular journey, I can then take what I learned share that with other people as the expectation, this is just what we're supposed to do as human beings, we're supposed to help each other out. And we're in this together anyways. So no one escapes the journey, everyone has to go on it. And if that's true, then we actually all have more in common with each other. And we can look at other people around us. And we can say, wow, like,
look at that journey. Look at that journey that they're on. And we can look at people that we love, who are maybe making choices that we don't understand. And we can say, Wow, that's, that's their journey. And I can support them. However, I'm meant to support them in their journey. But it's their journey. And just like Manas father couldn't choose what her journey was, even though he was sure he knew what it was being able to step back and say, Okay, this is their journey. And the journey is got it, like the journey is, is capable, the journey is wise, the journey is merciful. And I love how I talk about it, like, it's a thing, but it kind of feels like a thing to me, right? Connecting to this, this deeper wisdom and intelligence that knows, and is I trust it, it's gonna guide me and it's gonna guide them and it's going to guide even people I disagree with completely, right, like, it's gonna guide them and people who are making choices that are hurtful to other people, they get invited onto journeys to, they may be rejecting them. But the journey process is there too. And that whole, like kind of big, big picture opportunity where we can maybe just honor each other's journeys a little bit more, I think, is what relieves some of the the stress and pressure of being a parent, for example. Yeah, I look at my kids, and I'm like, wow, these journeys of their own, so crazy. And they're so different. And they're so some of them are totally foreign to me, because I didn't go on those journeys. And some of them I'm like, oh, yeah, I've been there, right, like this one, I can help. But they all get to have their dreams. And I get to have my journey. And I find that to be really beautiful, ultimately, really empowering, really connecting, as opposed to isolating all of us, it really brings us together. And if we could all just kind of have that perspective of Oh, wow, this is your journey. This is my journey. Awesome. Let's make sure we're here for each other and keep moving.
Oh, my gosh, so good. How can we, like find more of that acceptance for someone else's journey that we can't maybe understand ourselves right now? Yeah. And
it's not easy, right? It's not easy to see people making choices. We're like, what are you doing. But with with that trust in the process, and that trust comes through living it, right, it comes through, being observant of it, being able to take those leaps of faith to to just say, I have no idea why I'm doing this, or I have no idea how I'm ever going to learn this, or I have no idea how I can let go of this, but I'm going to stay. I'm gonna stay on this journey. And as we do that, every time we do that just builds more trust and builds more trust, to the point where I can say, Okay, this is your journey. And the consequences of that journey are are 100% yours, right? And, and if you can do that, and if you can stay in it, like that's where I want to be supportive of other people's journeys, as How can I help you stay on your journey, and to not quit early? And to not feel like you can't do it? Because if you're on the journey, it's because you can do it. I have no question about that. We don't get journeys we can't do. And so if you're on the journey, there's a reason and how can I support them staying on their journey, and not giving up when it's hard and being able to be reflective and observant of the process? Even when we're in the middle of the process?
Guy know, we were talking about that this morning via being able to like look at our, the draw Mr. minds want to have about something and just feel like okay, my mind wants to think this is a lot of drama, and I can like have that knowing that like it's actually. Okay, I know you mentioned earlier that a big piece of like sticking it out staying on the journey is emotional resilience. So can you talk a little bit about what that looks like? And if there's any other ways that you want to share about like, yeah, just how we can stay stay on the journey. And also actually, before we go there, what what does it mean to you to like, stick it out, stay on the journey. Like if we're How do we know that we're doing that?
Does that make sense? Yeah, that's a super good question. Because Because within like, even when I'm saying that, I'm acknowledging that there, the journey is going to take all these twists and turns that we we just don't get and we may think we're going totally off the path but we're actually right exactly where we need to be. So what feels like a detour for us sometimes actually may not be, it may actually be the journey. And that, so that's hard to write like, the journey isn't a straight line that journey, like you guys have probably seen that picture, right? Like what we think it looks like. And it's a straight line, but what it actually is like and like curving and going yourself and like all sorts of crazy, that's the journey, right? Like it really is. And sometimes when it feels like or we doesn't even feel like we literally are going backwards on that twisty windy path, we can literally be turned backwards and heading back that way, before we actually then head back toward where we think we're going right? And so, so with that being said, how do we know whether or not we need to stick with it? Or how do we know if we're, if we're giving up on it or whatever it is. And generally speaking, it's just we're being presented with this opportunity to act, right we're being in Madison, you talk about like the right now nudges, right? Those Those nudges that we're having are the invitations from the journey. And so the way we get off of that is by ignoring those nudges or rejecting those nudges. And we get to do that that's part of the journey, like the journey is not going to make us do it. But if we, we can deny those nudges, but we'll find that they keep coming back. And the ones that keep coming back in particular really powerful. I had a friend who was she's an artist, and she was there kind of with me when I was developing all these ideas and all of these things. And she said, You know, there's something that I keep feeling like I want to do, and I just haven't done it. And she had been an artist in high school, he kind of stopped, but had felt years later had been feeling these nudges to get back into art. And so that was our conversation was like, Okay, well, if you're feeling these nudges, then that's probably an invitation to go on a journey. And so she did and decided to take it up again. And it was, you know, hard and frustrating. And she had to learn new techniques. And she took classes in modalities that she hadn't tried before. And she kind of just did the whole thing, but she found it so fulfilling and so powerful in her life. And, you know, she became artists and residents in the city that we live in was able to do to put her for a month, you know, and she got to put all of our stuff up in the city center. And it's those, it's those nudges, right? It's the nudges that we can use as that guide to whether or not we're staying on the, in that journey, whether or not we're staying, or whether we're like, you know, I quit. I know, this is good for me, but I'm just not going to do it anymore. It's too hard. Or I'm not willing to give that thing up in order to have this other thing that I feel like I want. Those are the indications. So it's not it's not even a sense of whether or not we feel like we're making progress, to be honest. Because we're terrible judges of that. And I'm saying this, like fully aware that that you and I had a conversation just this morning about how like, even though I know this stuff, I still have to live it. It's it's more powerful to me to know it, and I'm more likely to catch it sooner. When I'm kind of spinning off into unhelpful thinking patterns, or whatever it is right? I still have to live it. My experience of living it is different, but I still have to live it if that makes any sense. And so yeah, we like the way
or what's in the way is the way that's one of my favorite quotes. It's like, Yep, we're we're gonna,
exactly and, and there are times when that just feels like drama. And that feels hard. And it feels all of those things. And the emotional resilience piece of it is being able to say, Okay, I'm recognizing that I'm feeling this and having the skills and the processes, to be with those sensations to allow those sensations to allow them to integrate, and to process. Because that ultimately was what would throw me off into these crazy, like I can't do it was like I feel this way, and I don't know what to do with it. So everything must be wrong, and I must not be good enough. And like it was all of those things, right. And so as I was able to really come back into my body, and I realized that's kind of a weird phrase, but to really inhabit my body and to be able to know that my body was communicating with me through these sensations and that I could build a relationship with it. That's the emotional resilience. So when things get hard, or doubts come in, or whatever it is, instead of being like, oh, then forget it. I'm done. I'm out of here. And you know, going back to where I started from which generally speaking was not a happy place. Like I was unhappy for a reason there was something I wanted, but sometimes it does feel particularly when we are learning how to have this emotional resist resilience, like I would much rather be miserable back there. Then in this really difficult hard stuff down here.
And whereas Yeah, I think there's a part of the journey that can sometimes feel like going back to who you were or what was, is really painful. But also the going forward into the unknown is painful. And it's like, Ah, it's all painful.
Right? Right, which pain do I want to experience today? And, and you're right, like, you have to live the journey, you have to do it, you have to do the hard parts, because that's what's being asked. And at the same time, when we look back on it, and I look back on my experiences, and I think Good grief, like, how did that ever turn out as well as it did, because when I was in it, I could see no way that this could turn out in a positive way. But being able to look back on it and see, like I said, those moments of like mercy and wisdom of, maybe you don't get what you want. But that's because the journey has something better, and it doesn't want, it's not going to settle, we may want to settle. But the journey won't, the journey will always have a vision of us in our power, in our wholeness. And it's not going to, it's not going to give that up, it's always going to see us that way. And so everything that happens is drawing us toward this vision that the journey has of our potential, and who we really are. And so when we are able to look back on it with a deep breath, and even some gratitude that we're not in that journey anymore, like that's okay, too, right? That was really hard. And I'm okay to not have to do that for a while. But I think we can look back and see, for the journeys, where we've been able to make it all the way through the cycle, the beauty and the power and the wisdom and the mercy of it. And that, again, builds trust. So when we're called on to journeys, were maybe a little bit more willing to say yes, and when things get difficult in that the trials and temptations part, which is that, you know, you got to try and you got to get feedback, you got to adjust all of that, we can maybe stick it out a little bit longer, try another rep, go to the gym and other day, take that, you know, stay in that class, whatever it is. And that just builds up our our trust. And I think that's directly tied to that emotional resilience. It builds up our ability to say, okay, I can do this. And if I do this, it will be worth it. Completely and totally worth it. And I can't see that right now. All I can see is that it's hard. And I don't know, I feel like I don't know what to do next. And I feel like the world is crashing down. And maybe it actually is who knows. And I can do it. And there's that there's that both. Yeah, it's hard. And I can do it. And the more we step into that, the more the more we build that relationship with the journey, the more we trust, the journey, and our ability to make it to the to the end of that journey. And then we get to start a new one. Ideally, we get a chance to breathe before we started. But but then we move on to the next one. And the next one, the next one. And it's a never ending process. And I know that when we're in the really tough times, that sounds like the worst thing in the world. Yeah, but there is such a power in knowing that we're, there's always an opportunity, there's always something else being offered to us level of depth of understanding of compassion, of joy, of clarity of whatever it is, there's there's always more, and I find that exciting. Now, I don't know that I always did. But I do now,
I love what you said about how like, like, I can't see that it'll be worth it. And I can do it. I think there's so much power in that because a lot of times when our brains are telling the story because we're in the drama, we're in the abyss or in the challenges, or your brain is like, Well, is it even going to be worth it is anything even going to happen and we go right to those like worst case possibilities a lot of times, and it's like it's okay to, for the brain to have that thought and to not buy into it like like we don't have to believe the thought in our brain that like nothing's going to be on the other side. Like we can have that thought and still keep going and like come and do it even though we didn't even know what we were doing.
Yeah, absolutely. And resistance is such an interesting part of this process. And my relationship with resistance has transformed as I've gone through these these journeys and really studied the journey process my my relationship with resistance has has shifted to where I mean we feel resistance when we're going to change, right like we resist change, and which is a different voice. And this is actually something I would work I work with people on is there's a difference between that voice and the voice of being drawn towards something right like I'm doing I'm feeling pulled toward this thing. I'm being pulled toward this change. is a very different voice, maybe a different feel a different texture, like like, Whatever, whatever the thing is for that individual person. But sometimes we can we can start to discern the difference between a voice that is saying to us, okay, no, this really isn't your path, there's something else I want you to do. And no, that's scary, we're not good enough, we can't do it. Like, there's, there's a big difference between those two voices. And what I found, when I, when I originally kind of had the opportunity to find an image to embody, my resistance, was like this big night in like dark armor. And he had like, all these weapons, and he has this smear on his face, like that was the image of my resistance. And the more I came to know, that voice, and that's, that's what that felt like in my body. And really tuning into that, the, the more I started to recognize, like, Oh, if that if my resistance is really strong right here, then that's actually probably where I need to go. And so all of a sudden, what I and I, and again, I'm still living this, right, like, I still feel that resistance. But at the same time, I'm able to see, the harder the resistance pushes, the more important that action or that change is for my own growth. And so it kind of came to the point where it's like, that was the signal. Like, oh, I'm feeling a ton of resistance there. What's in that for me? Because it wouldn't be pushing so hard, if there wasn't something on the other side. And so resistance a huge part of the journey process. But what is our relationship with that resistance? And how do we build up the emotional resilience, the cognitive support that we're going to need, when our thoughts are spinning off? Like, how can we take a step out of that and just observe and to see what's happening? Because the resistance will always be there, it's just whether or not we see it as an enemy or an ally. It's kind of an aggressive ally, to be honest, you know, kind of ally that probably walks in with like, tough love dirty boots, and is like, you know, putting their feet up on the table and do it, you know, it's kind of, but at the same time, it really is an ally, it's, it's part of that working toward our good because it's, it's that friction and that heat. You know, in yoga, we talk about Topas, right? Like, it's that friction in that heat, that actually leads to change. And so Otherwise, we'd just be going through the motions, there'd be you know, there's no resistance, then there's no change. And so as we see, resistance is part of it. And we may be stopped fighting it so much and start listening to it. It can change our relationship with that as well.
Whoo. Okay. So when we're like, in the resistance, like I'm in it, I don't want to do it or like, oh, and we're just feeling that. How can we like, how can we like choose in that moment that we're not going to, like fight it? And that we're going to like, allow it? Does that mean? Does that make sense?
Yeah, well, I can tell you what's coming to mind for me, and then we can see if that leads to where the journey wants us to go today. But I think the journey is also a lot more patient with us than we are with ourselves. And so there are times when I feel like I have to say, Okay, I just need to pause this journey for a moment. And take a breath. And one of our inner voice sessions. My my inner voice kind of gave me this image of of these rest stops of these spots along the way where we can come and we can kind of take off our backpack instead of down and evaluate, like, what's in our backpack right now? Do I have things I don't need anymore? Are there new things that I'm going to need, okay, let's just take a break. Let's drink some water. Let's sit down for a minute. And I think that's where we see like true self care if that makes any sense is when we're not escaping, we're not trying to, to emotionally bypass something, we're really doing the things that nurture us. And and that may be resting. And that may be you know, those physically pleasing things that we can do like getting a massage or whatever it is, if that's what we need, that's great. But sometimes self care is also like putting your backpack back on and walking right or doing the thing that we've resisted for so long or whatever it is. And so, sometimes when we're in the resistance, particularly when it's getting really loud, what I have found is that the resistance is often super loud, around an action and then and Just one example I think is so funny, I had a neighbor who her husband was in a in a pretty terrible car accident he was he was okay, ultimately, but it was a really intense time and they had two teenage kids and all of these things I thought, you know, I should just take him dinner. Because I will mean she doesn't have to worry about it, kids will be taken care of, I'll just take her dinner. And so this little tiny action of like making dinner and walking across the street created so much resistance, I couldn't believe it. Like it was crazy loud. All of these thoughts like no, she's gonna think I'm weird, or they don't need it. Or the you know, the kids can handle it like, all of these variations of reasons why to not do it. And, like really creative, stupid ways. To do it, like you get it gets kind of like if you start listening to things that are resistance can say, or can you really ridiculous sometimes Yeah. But as soon as I actually just took the dinner over, that all went away. Like there was nothing to resist anymore. If that makes any sense. He was resisting this action. So as soon as I took the action, the resistance had nothing to push against. And and that's for that being right, if
that's so interesting, is it like the action is like the chew toy that the resistance latches on to?
Yeah, like it's got this thing and it will be focused on? Yeah, it's rarely like, focused on what you're sitting in thinking about, does that make any sense? Like it's resisting, making that phone call or It's resisting, starting that program, or it's resisting, reaching out to people, whatever, like, there's, it's resisting an action. And the way we can relieve that tension, is by taking the action. And so I at least for me, it's I noticed I have a ton of energy that I spend, and I can be doing nothing, but spending a ton of energy, thinking about why I shouldn't do something or whatever. Whatever it is, it's a ton of energy. And so I just take the action, then all of a sudden, that energy comes back. And then it'll resist the next action in the next action. Like it never just goes away, but it will go away for that thing. And once I've released that energy, then I feel like I can see okay, oh, okay. So I've done this action. I can breathe. And I kind of think I know what my next action is. And other resistance comes back. Right. But but we do get those moments of reprieve as we take the action that It's resisting so much. So what do I think?
He said? Yes. Yeah, I think that's such a good question. For everyone, like listening, like, wherever you have resistance coming up in your life right now. It's like, what is this resistance, like inviting me to do? And like, go do the damn thing?
Yeah. Easier said than done, like, easier said than done. But when I started realizing that the louder the resistance was, the more important the action, it was almost comical, like, like the resistance, you know, if you imagine my image, and if you have an image of what your resistance, like, if you embody your resistance, what it looks like, it's almost like it's like, waving its arms and doing this crazy dance. Like, don't look over here, there's nothing over here, you know. But that's a, that means that's exactly where we need to go. And so in its own way, and this is why I think it's kind of an ally. in its own way, it's telling us where to go, even though it's pushing against it. That's how we know that that's where we, that's where some growth and some opportunities for us, like we always want to go in you and I have talked about as medicine, like, if it's feeling like it's, you know, we're pedaling uphill, in the wind, and all of those things, like just turn the bike around and go the other way. And, and I think that is not necessarily exclusive from what I'm saying. Like, sometimes the path that we know we need to go on is going to be hard. And that doesn't mean that that's bad. Like, that's just the that's the work we're being invited to do for this journey. It's the other stuff that we bring with it, right? It's making it mean this thing and deciding what we can and can't have and, and it's all the layering that we put on top of the work that we need to do. That's what makes it awkward.
Oh my gosh, I've not heard anything more. So good. Well, thank you so much. This has been absolutely amazing. I feel like I could just sit back and hear you talk about the journey all day long, because I'm just like, found so much like peace for my self in this. It's just like, ah, like it's all it's all a journey and it's all okay, and it's all like just part of the journey. It's all beautiful part of the experience of life. So before we wrap up and tell everyone where they can find you and work with you and all that good stuff is there anything else on your heart that we didn't talk about that you want to share just anything else coming up.
I think just maybe a little extra love and support for all of us when we're in those spaces where feel things just feel incredibly hard. And we may cognitively know that it's part of the journey. But what we're experiencing is incredibly difficult. And we don't want to do it, like, I'll be an abyss moments. And I'll know it's an abyss, and I'll be like, I don't care. I hate this. This is stupid. This is the most ridiculous thing ever. I don't know why I have to do it. Like, I can be in it and be angry about it. But if I again, allow myself to go through that whole emotional process, then I come out the other side of it. And so just so much love and compassion and support to anybody listening, like it's your journey, and it matters. Whatever's happening matters, it matters to you, it matters to all of us, because the more we allow ourselves on these journeys, the more we find the inner resilience to stay a little bit longer to do a little bit more on the journey, not not to do more, but like to be in the journey and to allow it to kind of take us where it needs to take us to get us to that amazing end. It's hard. And it's going to ask us to face some things about ourselves, it's going to ask us to do things that are uncomfortable, it's going to do all those things. But it's doing them with purpose. It's not pointless, it's very purposeful. And if nothing else, if we can just settle into Okay, apparently, this is going to turn out, okay, whatever, this is still stupid. But just just know that I have seen this process work, I've seen it change people's lives, which is the only reason I'm out here even talking about it is because I have this understanding of what it can do. I've seen it. And so if you need that extra love and support on your journey, it's yours. Like, take it from me right now you can have it as much as you need to just know that, that we believe in you on your journey. And as you live your journey, and then are able to help other people on their journeys. Like that's the economy of the universe. And how beautiful is it that we get to be a part of that, like, I think that's where the focus of that in our own lives. And we get to be a part of this bigger, more expansive experience. So you can do it, whatever it is, hang in there, take a breath, get some help get some support, whatever it is, but just know that you can do it. And the journey knows you can do it.
Oh my gosh, that was amazing. Thank you so much. How can everyone find you learn more from you get your book, or multiple books? Or you're writing your second or your third?
Right? I am I'm drafting various pieces right now. But I do have a book on Amazon. It's called the journey blueprints. And there's a Kindle version, an audio version, just for whatever modality suits everyone best. But you can find that on Amazon. It's the journey blueprint. And then the website is the journey. blueprint.com. And, yeah, right now it's, it's taking this route, Journey piece, and recognizing that it this framework fits in so many places, like anything, that's a journey, this framework fits. And so whether my own my own personal journey that has been about coming to love my body and embodying who I am like, that's the journey. Parenting is a journey. going off to college is a journey. Death is a journey, like people leaving us as a journey. There's all these journeys everywhere. And so my current work is how to bring those kind of journeys, specific vocabulary and understandings to these different journeys. So we can not just take the framework, but then apply it to these universal but very specific journeys. So that's the work I'm doing right now. But but until those things come forward, it's you can find me at the journey blueprint calm, and the book is available on Amazon.
Amazing and how can people reach out if they want to work with you?
You can just email Julie at the journey blueprint.com
Okay, amazing. Thank you so much, everyone. Go get the book and reach out to Julie if this work is speaking to you. Thank you so much, Julie. And if you guys resonated with this episode, reach out to us let us know let us know how you're feeling about your journey. And thank you, Julie, for being here. And thank you everyone for listening.
Thank you so much for listening to the magnetically your podcast. If this episode served you I ask that you share it with someone who could make a difference for or share it on social media and tag me magnetically you made sure to hit subscribe so you don't miss any of the magic and it would mean the world to me if you would leave a review on iTunes thank you so so much from the bottom of my heart for being here and I will see you in the next episode
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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